Topic: America's Future--Part 4 (Roman Empire Parallels)

One other thread I enjoyed was someone who did bring in the Roman Empire to the discussion--and Ozymandias, too--much needed, should've thought of that myself.

From:
pmarvel1
Aug-10 12:04 pm
To:
MARCAURELIUS
(192 of 434)

5178.192 in reply to 5178.190

Roman History is one of my passions. There are so many parallels and lessons from that era. What is especially relevant, and disturbing, is reading of the gradual evolution from Republic to Empire, a process that we are well on our way in paralleling, keeping the forms, but not the functions of a free Republic.
As Rome was the last "Super Power" of the Ancient World, The United States will be the last Super Power of the "modern" World.
However it will end for us, however far in the future it will be; the world will be vastly different because of us. We still have the power to shape our course, and finish the story of America differently than current trends suggest, but this now seems to be the crossroads. We go in one direction or the other, and once on that path, we cannot easily turn back.
I fear we will be just another great "experiment" that succumbed to the siren song of Power rather than Principle. We have already strayed far beyond the ideals that, like early Rome, assumed that we would be content leave and be left alone, content to lead by the example of our institutions, not the power of our armies.
OZYMANDIAS
I met a traveler from an antique land,Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stoneStand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:And on the pedestal these words appear:"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bareThe lone and level sands stretch far away.
PERCY BYSSHE SHELLEY 1792-1822
Edited 8/10/2005 12:08 pm ET by pmarvel1

So I had to put my due centavi in:

5178.197 in reply to 5178.192

Excellent posting. The example of Rome shows that a great Empire, like that one or like ours, can survive even extremely bad emperors once in a while (like Caligula, or Dubya). And the Romans did pretty well with their Emperors, a good 500 years before their definitive downfall, so perhaps we can survive the militarization of our Republic as well, at least for a while.
Again from the Roman example, the two things that our status can not survive are the united opposition of the rest of the world and rot from within.
We need to think about what kind of world we would like to be our legacy, what kind of institutions would be required, what kind of global policies, and what kind of people we will need to make them happen.

From:
pmarvel1
Aug-10 2:01 pm
To:
chinshihtang
(200 of 434)

5178.200 in reply to 5178.197

Yes, but the real lesson to be avoided is how a Republic turned into an Empire with those "extremely bad emperors". Actually, there were some very good emperors that helped balance the bad ones, which is probably why the Roman Empire lasted as long as it did -- not because of the government so much as the nature of the institutions established long before the Empire that kept it running as efficiently as it did, regardless who the "Chief Executive" was. But the bottom line is, they were still emperors, and not elected Presidents/Consuls, no matter how good or bad they were.

And--finally--my last words for that subject (at this time):

5178.201 in reply to 5178.200

I think we're pretty far down the road already in our evolution to an Empire--as you say, the forms (like the Senate) continued on in Rome. Can we turn back the hands of time? I think it more productive to think of the future, and what we can give to the global civilization which is forming.
I would remind everyone of how long it took Western civilization to recover from the fall of Rome to the Renaissance (roughly 1000 years). It is true that the nuclear weapons present the possibility of much greater and swifter devastation than in the past.
Ultimately, I think planet Earth can take whatever we dish out, over a scale of millions of years. Should make for interesting paleontology, our era, assuming there's anyone to dig us up.